
-------- TML Message #287 --------

Subject: STAR SYSTEM DIGEST, Volume 2
Date: 05 Apr 89 17:07:56 PDT (Wed)
From: jamesp
Archive-Message-Number: 287



***************************************************************************
** STAR SYSTEM DIGEST: star system generation, storage, and display.	 **
** All followups on this topic should be sent to morrison@pyr.gatech.edu **
** They will be edited for clarity and resent to the Traveller Mailing	 **
** List in a following digest.						 **
***************************************************************************

Subjects in today's digest:
	Summary of ideas for Database approach to star/system etc gen.

- --------

From: vu0141@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Fred Schiff)
Subject: Summary of ideas for Database approach to star/system etc gen.

All these ideas are Fred Schiff's with some help from James Perkins.
The following is a summary of ideas we hashed together in some discussions
about computer generation and storage/reclamation of star system information
in the MegaTraveler universe.


Basic idea:

  ability to create and output (in serveral ways) any multiple
  layers of detail inherent in the MT system (galaxy/quadrant/sector/
  subsector/system/star/orbit/planet-belt/moon/planet-map/
  region-map/local-map) in a portable form on a computer.


Points:

You should be able to comment any sort of object (Sector, Subsector,
System, Star, Planet, Moon, Etc.)

All these things should be optional, in fact I think you should be able
to fill stuff out from the top down.  Oh, you want to look at THIS
subsector? Quick... generate all the systems in it, stow it away.  And
you want to look at THIS system's extended generation stuff? Quick,
generate the expanded system data, stow it away.  Oh, a world map, QUICK,
generate a world map at the grainy level.  This region?  Quick, generate a
regional map... etc.

Free form data base: a general rule is that you shouldn't make things with
fixed fields.  This is important since, for example, the trade codes will
probably be kind of long; besides the trade codes there are about a dozen
odd things that can be put in there.

One thing we want to be careful to avoid is duplicating information.
Each separate item should have its own "Key" data item. For example,
we have the hex id for systems.

We should have a passwd-style database, with the fields seperated by a field
seperator (in unix passwd file, ":").  Its stupid to have to line
everything up on the columns.

Like this:


    Name.{filetype}
        .sector - UWP's, sector, subsector, and system names
        .routes - trade, xboat, other routes
        .expand - expanded system data for systems
        .text - commentary on sector, subsector, systems, worlds
        .map - world map information for individual worlds
        .key - (optional) explanation & code for each new base code,
               classification data and alegiance code used in .sector file;
               used to make explanation key box in outputs

The Name.sector file is organized as follows:

        #Sector: Spinward Marches
        #Subsector_A: Chronor
        Zeycude         0101 C330698-9 A Na Ni Po De    613Zh M9 V
        Reno            0102...
        Errere          0103...
        Cantrel         0104...
        Gyomar          0108...
        ...
        #Subsector_B: Jewell
        #Subsector_C: Regina
        ...
        #Subsector_P: Trin's Veil
        ...

Note: lines are not shown with ':' field separators for clarity.

I originally thought that star generation should not be part of basic
system (ie. mainworld) generation, since that info is not really needed
at that point, but have since changed my mind.  The stars should be
place in the .sector file but do not need to be output along with the
rest of the mainworld data.  Generating the stars at the mainworld
creation time allows you to place Ia, Ib and O stars and other such
objects which must be placed explicitly by the Ref.

The "#" lines are comments, unless everything up to the first leading
whitespace matches a "magic pattern", like "#Sector:" or
"#Subsector_B:".

The Name.routes file is organized as follows:

        #Route: Xboat
        # Zhodani Xboat Routes
        0103 0304 0303
        0412 0614 0712 0610 0608 0307 0304 0705 0904 1103 1402
        # Darrian Confederation Xboat Routes
        0421 0223 0325 0426 0527 0727
        0325 0624 0724
        ...
        #Route: Megacorporation
        # Oberlindes Lines (Starts at Regina)
        1910 1912 1815 ...
        ...
        #Route: Free Trader Routes
        # Tureded and vicinity
        2414 2514

Here the magic pattern is "#Route:".

Note that rather than having pairs of connected systems, we have a "run"
of connected systems, which avoids a lot of repetition when there is no
branching.  There is nothing to stop you from listing everything as
pairs, though, and this is probably what automatic software generation
will do.

The Name.text file would be something like this:

        #Sector
        The Spinward Marches...
        ...
        #Subsector_A
        The Chronor Subsector is the home of the Zhodani, who...
        ...
        #System_0101
        The Zeycude system is organized as follows...
        ...
        and here are some world maps...
        ...

If there is browsing software, it will use the magic code fields to
correlate data with the Name.sector file and the name.route file.

This:
        Zeycude         0101 C330698-9 A Na Ni Po De    613Zh M9 V
is only one possible output format (Spinward Marches list type)
I prefer Traveler's Digest form:
        Zeycude         0101 C330698-9 A Na Ni Po De    613 Zh
with travel zone at end, no stars listed and allegiance separated
from data values by a blank.

We also need to talk about clever programs which operate on the data.
I can think of lots of programs to emit postscript:

        sector2ps - Sector map of systems, ala the Spinward Marches map
        sub2ps    - SubSector map of systems, ala Digest Group map
        routes2ps - Sector map transparency overlay for each kind of trade route
        extend2ps - Program to format extended information pages

You'd use the above to create pages for a 3-ring binder, for example.

Browsing programs (ascii output):

        showsub - show a subsector map
        showsys - show UWP of system and expansion data
        showsysroutes - show map of vicinity around a system with routes

As well as programs which do generation:

        gensec - generates sectors
        namesec - replaces "Unnamed" on everything with random names
        expandsys - generates expanded data for a system, adds into name.expand
        genroutes - generate automatic routes
        annosys, annosub, annosec - add anotation text to the .text file

And of course we need some sort of menu program to tie everything together.
Maybe one big master program that gives you different windows onto the
data, allows selections and operations via a graphics interface on a Mac
or Sun.  Preferably something simple to begin with of course.

Its needed to keep real, useful, and complete information in each file.
Thus, everything necessary for basic generation is in .sector, including
all standard sector mapping info.  All route information is additional
information, and resides in .routes.  Similarly, textual discussion,
and whatnot are listed in .text and expansion data, in .expand.

- --------

End of STAR SYSTEM DIGEST

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-------- TML Message #288 --------

Date: Wed, 5 Apr 89 10:00:47 MDT
From: ("Jan L. Peterson") hc.dspo.gov!sol!jlp@tektronix
Subject: Jump Drive question
Archive-Message-Number: 288


Greetings,

	While driving to work this morning, I happened to be thinking
about the technical explanations for how jump drives work.  A
question came to mind:

	If you had a space station of some kind sitting out in flat
space that had a big fusion generator of the kind that powers jump
drives, could you hook it up to the crystals in a starship that was in
orbit with the station and charge the crystals without having to burn
any fuel in the starship itself.  Then, when the crystals are charged,
the ship could move itself out a little from the station (into
effectively flat space) and jump on the power stored in the crystals.
This way the ship would not need jump fuel or a "jump drive" (fusion
plant).  The only problem I can see with this is if the ship is
required to burn the fuel during the entire jump to maintain the
field.  But then why do you need the crystals at all?  Also, how do
drop tanks work in that case?  (My understanding of drop tanks says
that the fuel in them is burned and the tanks are dropped prior to
jump, so you do not have to "jump" the mass of the tanks and fuel.)

	Has anyone else had this idea?

	-jan-
- --
        Jan L. Peterson
UUCP:   { ...!utah-cs!caeco | quad1 }!olyis!jlp
Mail:   Olympus Software, Inc.; 1333 E 9400 S; Sandy, UT 84093 (USA)
Phone:  +1 801 572 1610

The IQ of the group is the lowest IQ of a member of the group divided
by the number of people in the group.

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-------- TML Message #289 --------

From: (Adrian Hurt) uunet.uu.net!mcvax!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian@tektronix
Subject: Jumps, energy and black globes
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 89 10:17:09 BST
Archive-Message-Number: 289



>The hull net remains energized at a low level throughout the trip to
>maintain a little pocket of "our" universe around the ship.  Should
>there be a hole in the net, a finger of the jumpsace will poke into the
>ship.

Which brings back my earlier question. How many hull hits can the ship sustain
before it is unable to jump? Under High Guard, the only ways to prevent the
other ship from jumping are to disable something critical (drives, bridge,
computer) or to drain its fuel. Using this "net" system, even a few surface
hits would prevent a breakoff by jumping.

>>Ah yes. These fellows also think gauss guns are silent.
>
>Actually, wouldn't they be about as silent as a pistol with a silencer?

As I said, if the projectile is subsonic. Silencers are designed to reduce the
velocity of the bullet to subsonic for just this reason. But a 9mm slug is a
lot heavier than a 4mm needle. And even then, the silenced gun has a very low
penetration, much less than that of a gauss pistol. In Striker, a 9mm pistol
(unsilenced) has penetration 2. A gauss pistol has penetration 4.

>The Starship book doesn't mention anything about Black Globes or
>alternative charging methods in the Jump Drive chapter.

My quote was from GDW's Book 5, High Guard, and is therefore official rules.
Of course, the rules may have changed a bit. As you've probably noticed, I'm
still using good ol' Traveller (with add-ons like Striker).

>Talking about extra capacitors, anyone ever design a ship which has
>piles of extra capacitors? I designed some ships which would burn the
>reserve capacitor energy to feed infrequently-used things like weaponry
>and active defenses.

When designing warships, I almost always allow sufficient power to let the ship
use its full agility and still use all weapons and screens. Anything else is
very dangerous if the other ship fires a spinal mount meson gun or particle
accelerator at you. I don't include extra capacitors, as the amount needed to
make a significant addition uses a lot of space which is badly needed for other
things. But the ship does often use energy from the capacitors instead of the
power plant - in fact, it has to, to avoid overload! My black-globed ships also
have another device, which may violate the spirit of the rules but should be
possible; a globe interrupter. This briefly turns off the globe to allow
out-going fire to pass unhindered. The ship's computer synchronises all fire
to cross the globe boundary simultaneously (fire missiles, then particle beams,
then lasers). Result; my globe does not protect the enemy. There is a slight
chance that enemy fire will hit my ship at the same time, but the computer
tries to make intervals between salvoes as unpredictable as possible.

Question 1: What happens to a missile which hits a black globe?
Question 2: Does a black globe absorb gravity? If so, I've invented a perpetual
motion machine and free power source. Just have a black globe generator linked
to a laser and timer. Turn on the globe; it absorbs gravity, and
slowly gains height. After a preset time, the globe is turned off by the timer
and some associated circuitry. It fires its laser at a receiver, getting rid
of the energy it picked up by absorbing gravity. It also falls. After another
preset time, the globe goes back on again, restarting the cycle.
	If a black globe doesn't absorb gravity, then repulsors and tractors
can be fired through one, which gives a ship with its globe fully on a way of
discharging its capacitors.


 "Keyboard? How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

The Traveller Mailing List is a courtesy of James Perkins and Tektronix, Inc.
All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
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-------- TML Message #290 --------

Date: Thu, 6 Apr 89 11:57:08 PDT
From: (Brad Post) c9c-aa@dorothy.berkeley.edu
Subject: PBM Turn 8
Archive-Message-Number: 290




If you thought turn7 was fun, wait till you read this.....
Also, I'd like to know what you guys think, is it exciting enough for you 
readers, are you amazed that MegaTraveller could be so fun, ....

- ------------------------------------------------------------------

Well here is turn #8.  I hope you all are quite stumped, interested, mind
boggled, and down right having a good time, because I know I am.  Well let's
see what new things are happening, and onto the turn....

*******************************************************************************
				NOTES
*******************************************************************************

1)  Well I hope everyone had a decent Spring Break, I know I did.  

2)  The readers on rec.games.frp and the traveller mailing list are now only
   1 turn behind us, and will probably catch up in two weeks.  

3)  I'm glad to see you guys are talking between yourselves, just remember to
  cc me anything that you think I should know.  Still send me official replys
  though.

*******************************************************************************
			   PLAYERS' MOVE
*******************************************************************************

	Samantha goes off to her stateroom and returns with some data chips.  
She places them on the tray next to the CRT and begins a search on the word 
`Binary'.  Steve went to his room and got some paper and a pen. He begins to jot
down some notes, hoping to break the `code' he believes the book is written in.

	About 5 minutes later Erekosse comes upstairs and says, "The captain 
said I should wait up here with you guys and just watch for anything.  What are
you doing?"
	"Well I was looking through the hand computer's files," begins Samantha,
"and I found this out."  She shows Erekosse the data displayed, relating to the
Binary and the bank transaction.
	"What's he doing?"
	"Me," says Steve.  "I think that this book is written in some sort of 
code, and since I did have a crash course in the Marines, I thought I'd give it
a try."
	"Code huh, I'll look at it later, this bank transaction looks familiar
for some reason, I seem to know ... damn, I can't think now.  Tell me if you 
guys figure anything out.  I'm gonna stare at this for a while.  Remember, we're
also supposed to be watching out for whatever might occur."
	"Okay," they both reply.


*******************************************************************************
			     CREWS' MOVE
*******************************************************************************

	"Well what do you think," says Erc.
	"Damn if I know.  This is really strange.  I think I want to go talk
with Hubert and settle this once and for all, I'm getting fed up with this."
	"Yeah, but should we open it?"
	"I think it might be safer if we leave it alone, as this readout says, 
everything is fine, I think it's best to keep it that way."
	"Okay, I'll clean up, sort of, and meet you upstairs?"
	"Right, see you there," says the captain as he lowers to the floor.  He
gets off the floater and straightens himself out and walks towards the stairs up
to the common room.
	Erc begins cleaning up the tools and the equipment after he sets down
on the floor too.

	The the captain come into the common room to and sees Erekosse sitting 
at a chair looking at a hand computer.  Samantha looks frustrated, and Steve 
looks like he's got something.
	"What is it Steve?" says the captain.
	"Well according to my calculations the code in this book says something
like this:  YUARLK EDUGHY IKLUTEF PIUOLL QAZEUT HVERTUI."  He's nodding his head
in a triumphant manner, "thats what it means."
	"Do you understand it?"
	"Well uh ... ummm ... not really, but maybe the computer will if we put
it through the language translator."
	"Yeah, okay, whatever you say," mutters the captain.
	"What's wrong Samantha?"
	She explains what she found in the hand computer and says she has 
searched through all her records about animals and plants everywhere, thinking 
that that is what the code was for.  She found zilch, nil, nothing, zero about
didly squat.
	The captain tells you all what he and Erc found out downstairs in the 
crate, and as he is done, Erc comes upstairs.  "Now what I want to do is talk to
Hubert, interrogate him, sorta speak.  Steve I want you with me.  Erc I'd like
you to look at those plans that Charlie printed out, see if we can somehow 
get a look inside, without opening, or see if that panel might `know' what its 
contents are.  Erekosse, I'd like you to talk to Dan and Charlie about you
know what, and convince them that everything is under control, and if they have
any info that can helps us it will be most helpful.  Samantha I want you just
to keep you eyes open, real wide."
	
	The captain and Steve walk to Huberts' stateroom door, the captain
unlocks it and enters, with Steve in tow.  Hubert was resting on the bed, 
staring at the cieling.  He sits up when the captain and Steve enter, he says,
"Well what do you want now?"
	"Answers," replys the captain as he takes a seat across from Hubert,
Steve situates himself at the door, his gun in easy reach, and he makes sure 
that Hubert sees it.
	"To what questions, if I may ask."
	"THE question is simple, what's in the crate?"
	"What crate?"
	"The crate in my cargo hold, that is from the Arter Apparel Corp.  I was
just down there checking it out, and it seems to me that you're lying about its
contents.  Now you tell me what's in there, or so help me I'll find out myself
and flush you into jumpspace."
	Hubert seemed to flinch when the captain mentioned about checking out 
the crate, but other than that his reactions are calm.  "Well first let me say
that before I go telling you anything, I want your help and before you go off
and tell me to fuck myself, I'll say this, those guys aren't IBI agents."
	"Go on."
	"NO, first you say that there will be no grievences against me, and I
can take my cargo and go after we get to Aramanx.  Then I'll talk, but not 
before."
	"Listen to me and read my lips, you tried to hijack my ship.  So who the
hell do you think you are in asking me for anything, you ...."
	"I wasn't trying to hijack your ship, honest.  I ...."
	"Then why the gun," Steve says.
	"For my own protection."
	"From who," says the captain.
	"From Moe and Curly."
	"Because you're a hijacker and you were ...," starts the captain.
	"I'm no hijacker," pleads Hubert.  "You've got to believe me, yeah I've 
might of had ideas in my childhood of being a pirate, but I never, I swear never
got involved.  The gun was for my own safety, in my line of work ...."
	"What line of work is that?" questions the captain.
	"No, no way, not until you say that you'll help me.  You've got to, I'll
pay you for your trouble."
	"How much?"
	"Well I think that he," motioning to Steve, "shouldn't hear this."
	"Sorry, he stays.  Again, how much?"
	"Two," replies Hubert.
	"Two thousand, are you joking," laughs the captain, "I could ...."
	"Not thousand, I'm talking a little higher, in the range of six figures
and they are all zeros," says Hubert coldly.
	"Two million, um ...."
	Steve whistles softly in the background.

	
	Erekosse walks up to Dan and Charlie's room, knocks, and when he hears
one of then say, "Come in."  He enters.  The room is quite messy, the personal
computer is on the desk, and Charlie is at it, working.  Dan is one of the beds
reading some papers.  There are papers on the floor, and on the other bed.  
	Dan sits up and says, "What can we do for you sir?"
	"Well to start off, I must say thanks for the warning.  I read your note
Charile."
	"Oh, you did," he says as he turns to face Erekosse.  "That's good, so
then you know about the `door'?"
	"Yes, I found it and took it out, it wasn't hard to do."
	"I know, I made it so you could.  If I really wanted to you could still
be trying right now ...."
	"Don't brag Charlie.  So you understand the predictament we are in?"
	"Not anymore, believe me, we have everything under control right now and
there is nothing to worry about.  Why the door anyway?"
	"Who knows, they told us to do it."
	"Who did?"
	"You didn't read the note then?" inquires Dan.
	"I did."
	"You didn't put that in the note," Dan says to Charlie.  "I thought I 
told you to put it in the note."
	"I forgot to, I mean let's be real here, I was pressed for time and 
space, and ...," says Charlie.
	"Well what was I supposed to read."
	"Huh, oh just that it was Moe and Curly who threatened us to do it."
	"Moe and Curly?"
	"Yeah, they said make sure that there is info on the IBI in the computer
and that these numbers, that they gave us came out okay.  They said we wouldn't
be hurt, and stuff like that."
	"But why," asks Erekosse.
	"Why?  Are you acting stupid on purpose or something," says Dan.  "There
are no records available to the public on the workings of the IBI.  I myself 
know only because of the top-secret work I've done for the Imperium on ... well
I can't go into it.  But really, the IBI is like the secret police in the early
Terra years, you know, the Gestapo, CIA, KGB, and all those agencies.  They
so `unknown' that you can never be sure if the person is real or not.  Only 
recently has some data come out on the workings of the IBI, and your system 
hasn't had a recent update ...."
	"How did you know that?"
	"Well I um ...."
	"They told us," says Charlie.
	"Moe and Curly?" asks Erekosse.
	"Yes, they told us to do it, since the computer was older and there 
would be no records, to do it.  To make things go more smoothly.  That's what
they said, or something to the likeness of it."
	"When did you guys talk to them?"
	"Before we got onboard, after we purchased the tickets, they came up 
to us in the waiting lounge at the Starport ...."
	"The Starport," shouts Erekosse, startling both Dan and Charlie, "that's
it."  He opens the door and runs and grabs the hand computer.
	
	"What's up," says Samantha.
	"I figured out this bank statement," says Erekosse.  "You see I was
sure I recognized the transfer ID:  PTP-SA-62.  But I couldn't remember what it
was till now."
	"Well tell us," says Erc.
	"Well it's simple, the PTP stands for Pysadi Ticket Purchasing, and the
SA is Starport Alpha, and 62 is the dock number."
	"62, hey, that's where the Ulysses was docked," says Erc.
	"Exactly," says Erekosse.

	"Well if you think that's good, wait till you get this," says Samantha.
"Remember that number:  Binary -- 8AC23D.  Well I was just fooling with it
in my head, and something made some weird sense, maybe it's too much caffine or
something but if you convert all the numbers, which are represented in hexidec-
imal code, into BINARY, it becomes:  1000 1010 1100 0010 0011 1101."
	"So, what all you have now is a bunch of numbers in binary representat-
ion.  What good is that?" says Erekosse.
	"Well I said, look at the first number, it's 8 right, well what if
you take the binary and represent it in octal, you'd get something like this:
4 2 5 4 1 0 7 5.  Means nothing huh, but it's the exact numbers necessary for
a world UPP, and the 4 could mean the 4th letter in starport/spaceport codes,
meaning the UPP would be D254107-5.  But it's just a guess."
	"Hell of a guess," comments Erc.  "But wait, if I remember my basic
computer class, that binary number is actually negative, and if you take this
something complement, or something like that, you would get a positive, right?"
	"Yeah you would," says Erekosse.  He grabs a piece of paper and jots
down the binary numbers and with a little computation says, "Well if you do it
taking it negative, and making it positive, then we get:  3 5 2 3 2 7 0 2.  I
think that means the UPP would be C523270-2."
	"This is really reaching don't you guys think," says Erc.
	"Pretty thin," says Samantha.
	"Hell," says Erekosse, "thin is my middle name."
	"With your cooking I'm not surprised," mumbles Erc.
	"Let's tell the captain," says Samantha.

*********

Well, this was the longest turn yet, and you can see why.  The cules are piling
up all around you.  What's next?  We'll find out in two weeks, or sooner when
I hear from you all.

Due date is 4-8-89, or ASAP.

Note:  All materials are copyrighted, Brad Post, circa 1988, any use of this 
 material without the author's consent is a felony.

********************************************************************************
    __-,                               ___ _________
 __(__)|___                    _______/   |________|          "This is where
`----------|_______________---/       `----_____|___           you are supposed
 (      ___+-----------------<---------_____________-----_  <------ to aim,
  `-----                      `-----------'      |  +---_/      right up their
                                            ____/__/___/_____      shaft!"
 Brad Post: bpost@violet.Berkeley.Edu      |   ======        ||
            ...ucbvax!violet!bpost         |_________________||

*******************************************************************************


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All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
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-------- TML Message #291 --------

Date: 6 Apr 89 14:41:00 CST
From: ("MARK A. POWER") uabmap01@asnuab.asn.net
Subject: Re: Jumps, energy and black globes
Archive-Message-Number: 291


Adrian Hurt, in Message 275: (sorry, I lost who he's quoting)
>>I got that from Digest Group's Starship Operator's Manual which explains
>>(probably for the first time) the rational for the various technologies
>>in Traveler.
>
> [ Comments on obvious error made by Digest Group, specifically 
>   gauss guns being silent ]
>
>>[energy absorbed by black globe screens,] - nope.  You can't use this energy.
>
>Yep. You can use this energy. At least, according to High Guard, which I quote:
>"If a ship absorbs enough energy to make a jump, and is supplied with
>sufficient fuel, it may jump at the end of the turn."

Whatever your feelings about the Digest Group people, you might want
to learn to live with it - their stuff might as well be stamped
"Official Material".  Marc Miller seems to think the world of them;
they really wrote MegaTraveller, and he (Miller) co-authors the Q&A
column in _Traveller's Digest_.  In one of those columns, he clarifies
(read: contradicts) that passage in High Guard, saying that the clause
about energy in the capacitors is unnecessary, and that the fuel
requirements are still there.

With respect to gauss guns, for a long time, I've allowed them to have
a switch that lets them fire subsonic.  It cuts their penetration in
half and shortens their range, but it's sometimes worth it.  Even when
fired normally, it is easy to tell someone's shooting at you, but
rather more difficult to tell where they are.

Unless i'm mistaken, the bit about the jump grid originally came from
an article in the Journal on jump space (by Marc Miller?), not the DG
folks.  As far as I know, no one has addressed what happens when its
damaged.  I still haven't seen the Starship Operator's Guide, but it
does sound, ummm, interesting.  Anybody care to review it?


- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Power				uabmap01@asnuab.asn.net
Health Information Systems
University of Alabama Hospital
- --------------------------------------------------------------------


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-------- TML Message #292 --------

Date: Thu, 6 Apr 89 10:25 EDT
From: B_MAHONE%UNHH.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: Maps...
Archive-Message-Number: 292


Hello all...

Bundled in with the MegaTraveller boxed set is a sector map of the Spinward
Marches.  Throughout the documentation there are references, by sector and hex,
of various systems, such as Antiquity and Capitol.  My question is, are all the
sectors shown in the "whole Imperium" maps available through GDW (or anyone?)

For instance, is there an "official" Corridor sector map available?  If not,
are all the pre-defined "official"  systems, like Depot/Corridor compiled
someplace?

The upshoot of this is whether I should invest the time working up a Corridor
sector, or if I can just buy one somewhere.

                                  -Bob


Bob Mahoney                                     BITNET: B_MAHONEY@UNHH
PSC Computer Services                           uucp: uunet!unh!psc90!rem
Plymouth, NH 03264                              (or) dartvax!psc90!rem
============================================================================

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-------- TML Message #293 --------

From: (Adrian Hurt) uunet.uu.net!mcvax!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian@tektronix
Subject: Maps
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 89 10:30:28 BST
Archive-Message-Number: 293



>For instance, is there an "official" Corridor sector map available?  If not,
>are all the pre-defined "official"  systems, like Depot/Corridor compiled
>someplace?

There is a publication from GDW, called "Atlas of the Imperium". It contains
maps of all sectors in the Imperium, and one or two not in the Imperium
(especially since some have seceded during the Rebellion). Unfortunately,
that's all it contains. High population worlds are named, but no others are.
No UPP data is given, except starport class, presence of gas giants, and
presence of naval and scout bases. Still, it gives you something to start from.

 "Keyboard? How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

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-------- TML Message #294 --------

Date: Mon, 10 Apr 89 08:28:45 edt
From: (Greg Givler SUPPORT) givler@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com
Subject: Re:  Maps...
Archive-Message-Number: 294


I believe there was a book put out by GDW about a year or two back, called
the Atlas of the Imperium. It had maps of all the sectors of the Imperium.
May be someone else knows more about it.

Greg

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Givler                        Q-Link: Commodore
Telecommunications Coordinator     CompuServe: CBM/Support 76703,2047
Commodore Customer Support         INTERNET: givler@cbmvax.uucp
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above opinions are usually mine, but sometimes I just repeat things.
==============================================================================

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-------- TML Message #295 --------

Subject: TRADE & COMMERCE DIGEST, Volume 1
Date: 10 Apr 89 12:10:17 PDT (Mon)
From: jamesp
Archive-Message-Number: 295



***************************************************************************
** TRADE & COMMERCE DIGEST: Cargo, freight, and passenger issues.	 **
** All followups on this topic should be sent to			 **
** givler@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com.  They will be edited for clarity	 **
** and resent to the Traveller Mailing List in a following digest.	 **
***************************************************************************

Subjects in today's digest:
	Welcome, and a call for input
	Ideas for Speculative Trade

- --------

From: James T. Perkins <jamesp@dadla.la.tek.com>
Subject: Welcome, and a call for input

Now we have a second digest -- the Trade & Commerce Digest.  This also
grew out of the call for volunteers that I sent out a few weeks ago.
The topic coordinator for this discussion is GREG GIVLER, who has
graciously offered to to coordinate Starship Cargo, Freight, and
Passenger issues.  Let's hear it for Greg!

The Trade and Commerce Digest will start by discussing a replacement for
the MegaTraveller/Merchant Prince system for generating and pricing
random cargo for Starship Trade.  Greg will collect your contributions
on this topic (assuming you're one of the listees who's interested
enough in the topic to participate), edit them for clarity, and send
them out to the entire Traveller Mailing List in the Digest.  He'll
attempt to lead the discussion and try to organize all the input into a
more cohesive whole.

As with the Star System Digest, Those of you uninterested in the topic
will be able to quickly recognize and delete the digests, and your mail
traffic will not be greatly increased, due to the digesting.

There has been a lot said about the "Trade Item Generation" tables in
the various editions of Traveller.

The original, rather simplistic model contained a table of items and
prices.  Any cargo item was equally likely to occur.  The costs/prices
were modified by die modifiers listed for each item.  The profit margin
could fluctuate between 40 and 400% of the base price, depending on
player skill and luck of the die.

The Merchant Prince system, also used in MegaTraveller, contains a table
of items for each possible world trade class, so different items have
different likelihoods of appearing.  It also contains an interesting
mechanism for classifying cargos as requiring "special handling", i.e.
it is flammable, alive, or corrosive.

However, many have voiced unhappiness about both systems.  There are
those who would take this modular piece out of Traveller and replace it
with a new mechanism.  Hence this digest.  [As an aside, isn't it neat
how Traveller is designed very modularly in this instance?]

The following is the first digest, which I have done for Greg as an
example.  Greg will start collecting your input for digest volume 2
immediately.

As a beginning, I'd like interested parties to LIST THE REASONS WHY YOU
LIKE AND DISLIKE THE TWO EXISTING METHODS of cargo generation, and SEND
THEM TO GREG.  That way we can start to specify the requirements for a
new system.  At the risk of jumping the gun, Mark Power has a partial
solution to the problem below.  IMHO, I think we need to take a giant
step backward before we go forward.

Thanks again, Greg, for your contribution to this discussion.

- --------

From: "MARK A. POWER" <uabmap01@asnuab.asn.net>
Subject: Ideas for Speculative Trade

PURCHASING
- - ----------
1) Determine number of available cargos.  Dependent on starport and
   population?

2) Determine specific cargos.  Involves a certain amount of searching
   on the part of the players.  Referee rolls on appropriate table for
   trade class.  If multiple classes, could be 
     1) Ref's choice
     2) Player's choice
     3) Random
   Table would have base sale price for this trade class and amount
   available.  Neither 5 tons of grain nor 200 tons of lanthanum makes
   a lot of sense.  It might also be necessary to institure Tech Level
   limitations at this point.

3) Determine base asking price.  Roll on table to determine price, say
   range of 50% to 150% of base.  Add any other modifiers (TL,
   population, etc.).  This is a complexity I'd rather avoid, but its
   probably necessary.  Note that I'd like to make all modifiers
   percentages, not die modifiers.  A table that runs from 40% to 400%
   is a bit much, and fixed amounts are simply ridiculous.

4) Contact owner (or agent) and haggle over price.  This step could be
   a lot of fun.  If an especially choice item, you could institute a
   bidding war for it at this point.  If using MT, this is a negotiation 
   task.  If using Traveller Classic, we'd have to come up for a rule
   for this.  Either way, the result would be a modifier in the range
   of +/-30% or so.  

5) Determine whether or not to buy.  This can be postponed until this
   point since the referee, not the players, have the table that has
   the resale values.  The players will know if they got a bargain
   based on local prices, but not on an absolute basis.

6) Determine delivery date.  Allow rush delivery at, say, 10% per day.
   At this time, determine any special handling characteristics.  I'd
   allow them to look it up earlier, or ask during negotiations, but
   this is where they find out if they don't think to ask.

SALE
- - ----------
1) Find a buyer.  Again, he's unlikely to come up and knock on the
   airlock.  How long it takes (and how many you find) is based on
   starport and population.

2) Determine base offering price.  Take base resale value from master
   table, apply appropriate modifiers from master table, roll on 
   random value table (same table as in 3 above.)

3) Select buyer and negotiate price.  See step 4 above.

4) Decide to sell or not.

5) Deliver as appropriate.  (In step 3, you agreed to deliver, and he
   just didn't mention he's in a war zone.  Or the Teamsters are on
   strike.)

(Note that I've gotten no direct feedback on most of this, so it may
not be what everyone is looking for.)

Passengers & Freight:  
If someone wants to suggest something concrete, I'd love to hear them.
There was some discussion a few weeks ago, but I didn't follow it
closely, nor have I put much thought into this, as what we've got 
seems to get us by.


Agricultural
- - ------------
    Item	Base Cost	Quantity	Modifiers	TL(?)
 1. Grain	Cr 300		4Dx10		    -		  -
 2.  .
 3.  .
 4.  .

MASTER CARGO TABLE
    		---- Resale ----
    Item	Value	Modifiers	Source Worlds
    Grain	Cr500	Ag -30%		Ag
			Hi Pop +20%
    Notes:
	Generally shipped in bulk: cargo hold must be devoted to 
	grain, and have installed a special liner.  Explosive: 
	Air in hold must be filtered to remove grain dust, or
	replaced with an inert gas.  Failure to do so will result
	any spark or flame causing an explosion.

(I don't know, think I should pick a different example, or has this
one been covered so thoroughly that it *can't* cause anymore 
discussion? :-)

- --------

End of TRADE & COMMERCE DIGEST

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